Retired politicians pensions & benifits.

John Guppy made this Freedom of Information request to Department of the Treasury

Department of the Treasury did not have the information requested.

From: John Guppy

Delivered

Dear Department of the Treasury,

Dear Sir

I wish know the gross amount & entire cost of cost's to the Australian tax payer of all retired politicians pensions and benefits costs per Per/Annam.

Yours faithfully,

John Guppy.

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From: FOI
Department of the Treasury

Dear Mr Guppy,

I refer to your request of 2 August 2013, in which you sought access under
the Freedom of Information Act 1982 (the Act) in relation to:

‘the gross amount & entire cost of cost's to the Australian tax payer of
all retired politicians pensions and benefits costs per Per/Annam.’

 

The Department of Finance and Deregulation (DoFD) has advised that a large
amount of the information you have requested is publicly available on
their website, at:

·        
[1]http://www.finance.gov.au/publications/p...
; and

·        
[2]http://www.finance.gov.au/superannuation...
.

Should this information not be that which you require, DoFD has requested
that you submit your FOI request directly to them.

In these circumstances, please advise whether you wish to withdraw your
FOI request submitted to The Treasury.  If you do not provide response
within 14 days, your FOI application will be taken to be withdrawn.

FOI Team
                                                                                                                                                                                               

Parliamentary and Legal Services Unit

Ministerial and Communications Division

The Treasury, Langton Crescent, Parkes ACT 2600

phone:  (02) 6263 2800

email:  [3][email address]

 

show quoted sections

References

Visible links
1. http://www.finance.gov.au/publications/p...
2. http://www.finance.gov.au/superannuation...
3. mailto:[email address]

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Anne George left an annotation ()

Dear Mr Guppy, are you satisfied with the reply you received from Finance? I followed the links and saw entitlement payments, but none for pensions. The handbook describes a very generous scheme.

I'm wondering whether any of these pensions are going to be subjected to means testing or whether the considerable entitlements (office, admin etc) will be reviewed as part of the budget tightening. How can we find out?

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Darren left an annotation ()

I am curious as to why the retirement of politicians isn't more widely discussed and to why they aren't being given one time superannuation schemes like the rest of us. I certainly don't see why a full pension for senators and the like are given after only six years in the back bench. I DO NOT want to keep paying for the people that wreck this country for their own personal gain when the people who make this country great are the worst off and least paid.

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Frank Baldock left an annotation ()

Is there some way to make very public the list of "retired" politicians and the amount they cost the Australian taxpayer each year. One article I read stated that Mr. Rudd, if he lives to the age of 85, will cost the taxpayer in excess of 20 MILLION dollars. The Federal government in the form of Mr. Hockey said the age of entitlement is over...is that only for the needy, the poor and pensioners, or is it to be applied fairly across the board.
Frank Baldock.

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Matt left an annotation ()

In full agreement, why should workers who toil for their working lives to build a superannuation nest egg for retirement, have to also throughout their working lives pay with taxes for retired politicians entitlement i.e pensions and benefits plus their super. How is that fair? It is also interesting to see that the media has never completed any detailed articles on the subject? Any politician worth their wait would reduce their pays and also removed these entitilements, i wonder how much that would help Australia's current financial position?

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Ben Fairless left an annotation ()

Hey Anne, Darren, Frank and Matt,

If you are interested in finding out information on entitlements, why not make an FOI request to the Department of Finance: https://www.righttoknow.org.au/new/finance

Cheers,

Ben
Right to Know Volunteer

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John Guppy left an annotation ()

it is pretty obvious that this information will never be released in its entirety , the government and all politicians will protect their own greed for the sake of wealth, I and many others have requeted this information without any conclusive answer, I was repeatedly asked "was I staisfied with the information I was Given", I wasn't at any time given any information, so is just another cover up.

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Eli Sky left an annotation ()

hello I'm Eli Sky and have been vexed by the question of how much welfare tax payers provide to politicians. Like you John I want to know what the exact figures are year by year. If New Start for the unemployed is so low and old age pensions meager then the public need to know what they are paying retired politicians. It is welfare afterall. It seems the privilege of governing the country is really a pension plan as I've heard it put. We need to find out and make it public.I thought of making it a campaign with Getup at some point but getting the information is proving impossible. This is a quest for me now.

I also want to know how much of government budgets, Fed and State are allocated to governing politicians, including their spending budgets. All the talk about waste in welfare should first look at what current and retired politicians are paid. That is the true waste for out times.

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Locutus Sum left an annotation ()

I did not see this request in 2013. Only now I have seen it because the annotation by Eli Sky made the request be visible at the top of the list.

The request fell on the face when the applicant, Mr John Guppy, did not reply to the response from the Treasury. That was a mistake. A year later, Mr Fairless asks, "Why not make a request to the Department of Finance?", but the applicant does not do this. Instead, he has made a comment to say, "it is pretty obvious that this information will never be released in its entirety." Maybe ... but it is not obvious to me.

Instead of many moans (all of which maybe will prove founded on solid ground) it would be more interesting to have a good request made to the Department of Finance. I say, "good request" because I mean that it must be a request for the correct documents and not a poorly made request for "information".

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John Guppy left an annotation ()

In answer to " Lotus Sum" Your answer is indicative of all government departments, I did answer all annotations e-mails & correspondence ,But they all had the same message , " Were you happy with the information we gave you , my answer was always the same 'I was not given any information OR my question was never given a coherant answer.
there is no good you getting indignant with me Lotus Sum all you have to is give a STRAIGHT answer to a simple question.
without being drected and re-directed to different departments ,What is the Lump sum GROSS total pay out to all our politicians Past and present plus all the public servants , in short what is the total yearly cost to the australian people every year of our political system,/Again/ Past and present.
I deny Maam that i did not answer correspondence or directives and the ONLY information that I received OR could have received would have taken years to sift through and would be impossible to sift through.you attempted to belittle me in your post, I have the right to defend myself and would be intersteds to see if you will grant mye this courtesy.

John Guppy

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John Guppy left an annotation ()

To Lotus Sum, having had time to sleep on it and reflect, I think I have come up with answer to the whole solution.
If you beleive that if all directives are followed it should be simple to abtain and answer, then my suggestion to you is that YOU obtain the answer that everyone has been trying to find and let us all Know, Being sure ,of Course , in your own mind that the answer is fully Complete , True and uncompramised , you will find that you will be sent on an endless Paper chase and end up with the question " how long is a piece of string' I wish you luck.

John Guppy

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Locutus Sum left an annotation ()

I think that there has been a misunderstanding or else something has been lost from the Right to Know website. There are remarks from the applicant for which I mostly I would not make a further annotation but for this occasion I think maybe it is important.

I begin out of order ... It was necessary for me to find "indignant" in a dictionary to understand what is meant in the annotation. I found "indignant: feeling or showing anger". Also I found "indignation: anger aroused by something unjust, unworthy, or mean". I must say that I do not feel indignant; I am not angry or upset with the applicant. Neither I believe that the applicant has behaved badly or wrongly. So, if my comments gave an apprehension of that kind, I apologize to him.

Now I look seriatim at the other comments. The applicant says, and I must believe him, "I did answer all annotations e-mails & correspondence ". If that is so, then either his reply was not made on the Right to Know website and it is not possible for another person to see these replies, or else something went very badly wrong with the Right to Know website and the reply from the applicant to the Department of Treasury has been lost and the next reply from the Department of Treasury to him has also been lost.

The question "Were you happy with the information we gave you?" is meaningful. It is not rhetorical. It wants an answer. So also is the request in the Department of Treasury reply, of 8 August 2013 that says, "In these circumstances, please advise whether you wish to withdraw your FOI request submitted to The Treasury. If you do not provide response within 14 days, your FOI application will be taken to be withdrawn." The request itself clearly had warrant for a reply from the applicant that said, "No, that is not what I wanted. Please continue to treat my request as a request under the Freedom of Information Act." From the documents that are visible on Right to Know, that did not happen.

Last, there is the core of the problem. It is a problem with the law in your country, a problem with the original request, and a problem with the replies. The problem is this much ... the original request was "I wish to know gross amount & entire cost of cost's [sic] to the Australian tax payer of all retired politicians pensions and
benefits costs per Per/Annam [sic]" but this is not a valid request under the Freedom of Information Act.

I will say it again. The request might be reasonable. The request might be important. The request might ask a question for which every Australian citizen desires to know an answer. The request might (?) say what it wants clearly enough for a public servant to understand it. But it is not a valid request under the FOI law of your country. It is not a valid request because it is not a request for an identifiable existing document. It is a request for information. Yet in section 11 ("Right of access") of the Act, we see that it says "(1) Subject to this Act, every person has a legally enforceable right to obtain access in accordance with this Act to: (a) a document of an agency, other than an exempt document ..." and that is not what is requested in the original letter. So the original request is unenforceable and the Department is not under an obligation to provide the information. Yes, it would be good if they did provide it, but the law does not impose an obligation for the answer.

If the Department and the applicant had danced the FOI-tango the way it is stated in the FOI Act, then the dance would step like this ... The applicant writes his email the way that he has on 2 August 2013 with the request given in the terms that he writes. Next dance-step is that the Department of Treasury should have replied by 1 September 2013 (they replied on 8 August 2013). It is (legally) acceptable that they have said "a large amount of the information you have requested is publicly available on their website" but of course I do not know whether it is true that the information is on this website or not. The other thing that the Department of Treasury should have said but failed to say was, "Your request is not a valid request under section 15(2)(b) of the Act because you do not give sufficient information concerning the document you are seeking for a responsible officer to identify it." Then there would be some more dance-steps where the applicant and the Department can work together to make the request fit the terms of the Act and finally, the Department makes a decision about access.

Again allow me to say that I do not suggest that a valid request will deliver the document a person wants! Success is always uncertain; only failure can be guaranteed. If the request is not written correctly in terms of the Act, it will probably fail. If the dance-steps of the hither and thither between a Department and an applicant are not danced strictly according to the steps described in the FOI Act, then a failure is also guaranteed.

A brief summary is to say that the question for which the applicant wants an answer is not a question for which the Freedom of Information Act is very useful. The solution to the instance problem is to try to discover the information some other way ... I have no idea what way(!). The solution to the wider problem is to try to have your politicians support more government transparency. For which I can say to you in Australia at this time when your Attorney General wishes to deconstruct the Office of the Information Commissioner (http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/C2014B0... ... "Masser af held!"

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Sam Watkins left an annotation ()

I am a computer programmer. My computer added up all the benefits in the first link, giving a total of $1,126,107.72 in 6 months, or $2,252,215.44 in 1 year.

The report on PCSS (political pensions, I assume), projects an outlay of $39.8 million for 2013/2014. (but it grows each year).

As I understand, that gives a total cost of approx $42 million dollars, $42,000,000 per year. The cost grew by more than $5 million per year between 2012-13 and 2013-14, needless to say this outstrips inflation.

Perhaps the honorable FOI representative could confirm or correct my reasoning?

I agree that this is $42 million dollars which would be better spent elsewhere. Or even burned.

The thought of certain ex-prime-ministers receiving hundreds of thousands a year for having messed up our country makes me want to throw up.

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Janell left an annotation ()

Hi, Am shocked but I would like to go one step further. If Joe Hockey or any other Treasurer was serious about 'living within our means' then the government of the day should be looking at all levels of Governments, ie Federal, State and Councils. They should be leading by example. With a shrinking workforce and people living longer something has to be done. How about we start at the top and work down.. not the bottom up.... or are we poor ratepayers expected to cop it in the neck all the time.

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Darren left an annotation ()

The amount your computer put together sounds like it is only Prime Minister payouts, do you have any amount for the hundreds of other politicians that only serve for a half dozen years or so on back benches and the like that have similar entitlements?

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John Guppy left an annotation ()

Hi Folks , I did add an annotation with an answer for you all on the findings of politicians pay, but it didn't come up or was blocked, so will tyr again.a lot of the relevent information on Politicians wages ,Past & Present can be found on Dr dale Kerwin's internet page d.kerwin@griffith.edu.au. or Phone 07 37355884
fax 07 37355991. APART FROM THAT THERE IS A LOT OF USEFUL NEWS LIKE " Scap political pensions".If you can't get the information e-mail me on johnboy26@optusnet.com.au and I wil attempt to send you the information.

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Ben Fairless left an annotation ()

Hi John,

You replied to an email you received from Right to Know, not to the Annotation itself.

To reply to a request, or to add an annotation, you need to come to the Right to Know website and add it like you did the last one. Simply replying to the email doesn't work.

Thanks,

Ben

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Phillip Sweeney left an annotation ()

Pensions for Polies

I have received a FOI response from the Treasury that confirms that the widows of former MPs and Senators receive an annual pension of around $80,000 per annum.

A lot more than the old age pension.

Regards

Phillip Sweeney

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Katherine left an annotation ()

hi John Guppy

I contacted Dr Dale Kerwin the other day after seeing his post
http://www.startsatsixty.com.au/finances...
(was hoping to get a petition with weight behind it) but he said he didn't actually write the info:

"I must apologies to you, the email was just a chain mail sent to me and I sent it onto a couple of friends who have posted it out to others and it has gone viral. I forgot to delete my signature block from the bottom and this has given it some authority as being creditable however I have no idea about the research and its veracity. Again please accept my apology and if you post it on please delete my name from it again sorry Dale"

This does not of course alter the fact that retired politicians receive a ridiculously high "pension", but it does mean that the figures in that article have not been verified by Dr Dale Kerwin.
Back to the drawing board :/

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John Guppy left an annotation ()

Appology accepted , in this day and age it is hard to know what is Fact and what is fiction, which brings us back to the fact that the Political systen in Australia is not about to tell the populise what they want to know , which in itself is indicative of the lies and coverups within our system which is a worry in itself , the very fact that this information can not be found or verified answers the very question, that our politicians ARE definately being grossly overpaid and are desperate to keep this information from the general Public.

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Matt left an annotation ()

The sad fact is that we all know it is not fair what they get paid now, or even worse what they receive in retirement, BUT the only people that can legislate to stop this are the ones in power receiving these benefits. They will not change, what the Australian community needs is a way and means to stop it. Public awareness will not get us over the line. What can be done to stop it?

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Brenton Whiley left an annotation ()

Hi John, excellent concept & great work trying to get a reliable figure on this subject, it has long bothered me that we overspend on politicians Aust wide & that we have just too many politicians per capita. Getting rid of upper houses across all the states would be a start (Qld did it in the 1920's ) Good Luck, Brenton Whiley living in a one house parliament environment in the NT.

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John Guppy left an annotation ()

In ones quest for information, it is interesting to note that it seems that our government is obviously being controlled by outside powers and helps somewhat to clarify why our country is becoming nearer to bankrupts'y and where a lot of our country's money is disapearing to ,apart from the massive amounts that are being payed out to past and present politicians.
in a letter to the "Morning Bulletin" Rockhampton "Sat 27 feb 2015" written by N.W.H.Timms he gave this summary on the foreign aid being paid out By the Australian Tax Payer . Following is the reason why we lack adequate funding for infrastrcture in Australia " FOREIGN AID . : Australia has given $359 Million to Congo,$397 Million to Eygypt ,$981 Million to Ethiopia,$1.4 Billion to Haiti,$351 Million to Ham as ,$1.8 Billion to Iraq, $463 Million to Jorden,$304 Million to Kazakhstan,$816 Million to Kenya, $1.45 Billion to Lybia , $622 Million to Mexico, 404 Million to Mozambique,$456Million to Nigeria,$ 2 Billion to Pakistan,$698 Million to Russia, $566 Million to south africa,$ 698 million to Senegal, $870 Million to to Sudan, $ 554 million to Tanzania $451 Million to Uganda, $331 Million to Zambia,$650 Million to Indinesia , and $500 million to New Guinea, so apart from the massive pay out to our totally useless politicians and thanks to our politicians who are obviously Subserviant to the UN/IMF/World Bank,Australian Tax payers have become an endless finacial supply for all these Bludging country's.

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Citizen cane left an annotation ()

Until the Australian public stand up and say no more we will always be treated as if we do not deserve to live a decent existence. I would love to see a politician walk a mile in my shoes and try to live on $36,000 a year and then start thinking about retiring on the wonderful pension they offer every ordinary person that has worked their arse off to keep these legal thieves in the lap of luxury. The government bleeds the public to their hearts content, but be warned as my mother always said sooner or later the worm turns. We have ridden on the sheep's back for many a year. Politicians changed the rules and now are riding us. NOT HAPPY JAN . Save yourselves millions you miserable Cretans and give every person who is about to retire a gun and 1 bullet so they can blow their brains out and you can save millions to keep you'r coffers full till you'r demise. Now that's off my chest let's sit back and do nothing as usual.

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kalel eihctir. left an annotation ()

I read the enthusiasm in every post to this seemingly simple request.
The one thing I do notice every time is the runaround from every contact that could give the relevant answers.
Does anybody have a person that could eloquently pose the question to the apparently unanswerable.
"How much money do politicians get when they leave office, (not retire), and how much do we spend in total per annum,supporting them, including those already receiving funds?"

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Citizen cane left an annotation ()

Sorry Kalel, eloquence will not solve the problem or give you the answer on how much is given to politicians after finishing their time as politicians. I can just see my employer saying to me just finish you'r working career with us and we will keep paying you the wage you are on now for the rest of you'r living life. WAKE UP my friend the only pockets they line is their own. At present there are if I'm correct 7 ex prime ministers still being paid what they received when in power. Now I may be no genius but I can certainly work out the Australian population would be a lot better off if this money was siphoned back into economy and used on health care, housing, pensions, etc . Have a referendum and ask the people they supposedly work for, sure the answer would be NO.

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Brother Ian left an annotation ()

Please forgive me if I have, as a first time user of this valuable forum repeated a question formerly posed or addressed. I have looked, but can't find what I'm looking for.
I have followed Mr. Guppy's original question only this very day and believe his question has been answered. However, I would like to know whether or not the figures quoted for ex/retired politicians in the respondent's links, are subject to Income Tax? If not, why?

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Mitch left an annotation ()

Hello all, I have just found this site and how the systematic rorting of Australia carried out so blithely really disgusts. I have added up the cost to us of just wages and it is scary, not to mention your line of enquiry as well. I then looked at the privatisation measures taken by this lot of incompetents since 1990 and was truly shocked. Politicians have cost the Australian public hundreds of thousands of billions and continue to do so. I did the same as far as requesting information and got the same two step shuffle. Nearly finished writing a book on our young people and families in crisis. It seems exacerbated by the outright thievery of our so called leaders. Families in real crisis, drugs murder death on the streets as they recline like Nero and play the fiddle whilst we all burn like Rome did. A real series of interviews with families and street kids, lets see how it is received, cheers all

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John Guppy left an annotation ()

I would like Firstly express my pleasure in the fact that so many people seem to be aware of the massive rorts occuring within our political system, but one thing concerns me with the addition of comments made by " Brother Ian"? who states that " I have followed Mr guppy's original question and Beleive that it has been asnswered ". well Brother Ian you are full of surprises as you e-mailed me twice to sus me out before you made "comment" on the forum then you make claims that are completely out of order , If you beleive that my question has been answered Please give the answer to everyone else because we have certainly Not received it , I don't know if you are operating under the directive of the Freedom of Information Dept or right to know or you have your own agenda , we are pleased that you have chosen to make "COMMENT" but please contain it in the spirit in which it is being persued . Yours Sincerely : John Guppy.

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Brother Ian left an annotation ()

This I managed to find from the Sydney Morning Herald, It's 6 years old
http://www.smh.com.au/national/full-list...

Do not mistake silence for inaction.

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John Guppy left an annotation ()

for all those people "inluding Brother Ian" that beleive that the Question of politicians pay and perks have been answered ' NOT SO" , if you had watched the news tonight on Channel 7- 2 November 2015 you would have heard that even the television investigaters were given the cold shoulder when they tried to access this information and could not gat any information WHATSOEVER which has been the case from the begining , EXCEPT to say that information on " JOE HOCKEY indicates that he is receiving $ 360,000.00 per year that is close to a $1000.00 a day , this is not only obscene but totally unbeleivable . to those who beleive that the questions have been answered , Please indicate what infromation you have that indicates this , or forever hold your peace .

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Brother Ian left an annotation ()

For God's sake Guppy, get off your paranoic pedestal!

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Phillip Sweeney left an annotation ()

Pensions for Pollies

Joe Hockey is now receiving a very generous pension at the age of 50 thanks to the Australian Taxpayer.

However Joe has allowed widows to be cheated out of their pensions. To find out why Joe did this go to superfraud.org and find out why.

Phillip Sweeney

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John Guppy left an annotation ()

Hi brother Ian: it would seem that you rare having some identity crisis in your life, it took you 3 month to respond to my post and it seems that you have no grasp whatsoever in re to the corruption within our system or have no idea at all of what you are talking about , I* also beleive that you are a "plant" politician , I dont know what gives you the idea that i have put myself on a pedestal, I am an ordinary working class person who has struggled through life like everyone else , I have no dilusions as to who i am, I am now an old age pensioner who doesn't like the direction this country is heading in, and if you truly had your finger on the pulse "you" would be well aware of this , Instead of playing the person I suggest you direct your energy towards trying to make this a better country instead of trying to band stand yourself , Apparently you have no idea what you are babbling on about so leave it be to people who do.

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John Guppy left an annotation ()

Brother Ian, Before we go any further with this "Useless rhetoric please be aware of the rules and regulations of the Forum , i certainly do not wish to get into a slanging match with you so before it goes any further I think it should stop and we will concentrate on the matter on hand.

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Darren left an annotation ()

I see that the entire question of monies paid to any and all politicians that no longer work in the government sector appears fruitless.
There will never be a royal commission into it when the people in question run the show.
We need to, as a people, draw the line in the sand and get a non biased person or organisation to work on it pro-rata. This really has become the white elephant in the room. Truely, what we need is a prime minister from the people, for the people. An actual idealist that sees the problems and wants them changed at all costs. Know any good candidates?

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John Guppy left an annotation ()

Hi Darren , Good thinking mate , a line in the sand would be a great idea but how do you implament such an idea as the Beauracrats seem to have a closed shop and it seems that's the way they will keep it , I don't know what it would take to break the Mold of a two party prefered system but as long as it stays that way nothing will change as is everything in australia the system has made it so that the average person has no recourse to appeal and they constantly protect themselves with new Legislation, I think it is more that Obscene when politicians beleive it is Ok to have a retirement Scheme that puts them in millionare status for life after only serving 3 tearms in office then a front bencher can claim a weekly pension somewhere in the vicinity of $3,000.00 when they set our pension at $300.00, if they set it as being adquate for us then it should be the same for them.

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Brother Ian left an annotation ()

Response? To a Post? I wasn't aware of time limits for Posts. If someone dies, it takes shape in grief and this takes time for the grieving process along with sitting at a loved one's side waiting for the inevitable. So, I'm extremely sorry if Mr Guppy thinks I care a fig at the moment for Politics and Politicians pay!

I am sincerely and truly apologetic for Mr Guppy's "Internet Trolling".

This is my last communication here.

Perhaps Mr Guppy will now understand this means that there will be no more posts, apparently time limited or otherwise.

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Amandajl left an annotation ()

Has anyone ever asked the question WHY they get paid after they 'retire' from government? When I leave a job, I sure as hell don't keep getting paid.

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John Guppy left an annotation ()

Hi Amandjl, In responce to your Question " Has anyone asked the question WHY they get paid after they "retire" from Government". this is the question that has been asked for years but the government has blocked this information as they don't want anyone to know . Suffice it to say they pay themself massive pensions simply because they can, the general consencus is that it should STOP Now, thank you for youe input , evry one's input will help.

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treichle left an annotation ()

It appears that it is closed to new members

http://www.finance.gov.au/superannuation...

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Mitch left an annotation ()

The right to know what politicians get is a fundamental right, one that has been obscured. There are more issues at foot here. A person should earn their super, that is a given. Our crop of thieves have been systematically looting. I have written a book of interviews with parents and our street children showing the destruction of youth services and the rise of violence and terrorism, all linked to money and all true. The privatisation list is enormous and included. Start requesting more information. Email me on graememitch57@gmail.com and I will send you a copy. Hope this is not seen as a rant, because all things are connected

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Max left an annotation ()

I've seen a million long words and directions to email blah blah but not a figure? Is there a simple dollar figure of all retired politicians TOTAL cost to tax payers per year? Thanks

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Brother Ian left an annotation ()

I agree with Mitch.

1. Why not start a petition at change.org Mitch? I would be one of the first to sign it. It is my understanding that if enough signatures are obtained, the Government cannot ignore the people.

2. I have had the opportunity of using this FOI site (on other matters) before, but it seems that you can get anything you want, but information no matter how you ask the same question. Have a look at all the Information requests that bear fruitless answers here.

3. Forums are usually established in order to keep a certain groups of people in one place, grumbling and moaning about issues in one place and in a controlled environment.

4. By now, and personally judging the absolute paucity of informational answers to what should essentially be Black/White questions on this issue, I believe a "Grateful Nation" is throwing untaxed money at retired/ex-politicians hand over fist.

5. I have been informed that a previous Prime Minister, 86 as I write this receives hundreds of thousands of untaxed dollars annually, once again from a "Grateful Nation". I thought one lives, works, retires and enjoys the fruits of Superannuation or Centrelink. Let THAT guy live off a few hundred dollars a fortnight. He's done his JOB. Period. Being paid this kind of free money 21 years after 65/retirement age I find extremely distasteful and this doesn't include the perks.

6. Multiply all of the above by the number of ex/retired politicians and we might get a rough idea on what the annual bill to taxpayers is.

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Mitch left an annotation ()

www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliame.... What is a politicians base salary, be prepared to be annoyed.

I went in here and looked around when writing the book. These figures are nothing really. If we were enjoying good careers, wages, job prospects, aged care, youth care, social services and all the things we elected them to do the amount of super would not bother us one scrap. The sad reality is we are getting none of these fundamental needs and they are retiring loaded. That is where the issue is, if they were any good we would pay them more probably and be happy doing it. The amount of money they are costing us is injurious for sure. Our constitution only allows for two tiers of government Feds and State, they foisted the other on us to escape work, and still we do little. If you want a copy of the book email me graememitch57@gmail.com then we have a focus point to raise issues, so far it is divide and conquer and we fall for it every time.

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Mitch left an annotation ()

Further to that I will be starting a petition, later this year when the book has passed final edit. I agree if we all sign it and get more support they will listen, as an ex staffer that got out, the only thing they respond to is votes and pressure. I do agree on that and agree "No child will be living in poverty by the year blah blah blah. There it is plenty of blah in there. The site on the last post I just did will show you plenty of on and running costs but I did not have the time to run down the whole lot. Will try to make some though as it is important. I googled how much do politiciand get paid, up came the site, have a look

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John Guppy left an annotation ()

Good on you brother Ian, now you are starting to make some good points and that is what what needed , but we just don't want a "ROUGH" idea but closer to the Truth ( whatever that is ) knowning our politicians calculations could be out by millions of dollars , I don't know about you but I am very interestd in what Mitch and his offer of a book with information pertaining to the subject, i will certainly be e-mailing him in the near future To obtain this information.

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JaneAndStefan left an annotation ()

Hi all
I have only just found this excellent discussion and am keen to know if anyone ever found out enough to calculate the numbers?

Will be interested in the book and the petition when they are ready.

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John Guppy left an annotation ()

Hi Jane & Stephen , There has not been any sort of clear answer to this corrupt Fiscal political system, but the idea is to get more people interested and to create a ground swell of protest against the exploitation of the Australian people, they will guard their secrets from the public because they know that it is ethically wrong and purely Greed driven, If their $3,000.00 a week pension is not decreased to the same level as our age pension of $325 A WEEK ,then they are not being honest and up front with the people , the more people that come on the forum the better and we hope someone can come up with some ideas to stop the extortion of the tax payers money.

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Stopthelegalthieves left an annotation ()

Michelle R . . I tried to source information regarding politician's pensions and entitlements and also drew a blank . . I wanted to start a petition also but I needed someone to direct that petition too who could make changes . . I hit a brick wall . these legal thieves have covered their backsides . . the usual run around . . we need an independent investigator to expose these thieves . . Maybe Q&A could be of service and directly question the appropriate authorities and put out a national poll . . food for thought . . maybe we could direct the petition to them . .

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Mitch left an annotation ()

Hello all, Mitch here. The book is in final edit now and will probably be toned down somewhat. We all understand that money taken from us in the form of retirement benefits comes from the public purse somewhere. I have taken aim at politicians and drawn the bow towards our young people. If they rort one area it is easy to take money from easy targets.
1) PAYE taxpayers are a sitting target with little to write off as expenses, unlike our big companies
2) Young people are easy to target and defund or underfund services, but they bite us back for decades to come. Watch the news tonight to prove it. I worked with kids since the eighties and do the maths at who is causing many problems, more to come as well
3) Our elderly are also an easy target, they are systematically underfunded after a lifetime of work and service.
I decided to discuss young people as an example, without them we are nothing.
Will let you know when it is ready and hope it is not seen as a long winded rant, it is all sadly true

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Hellyn Crombie left an annotation ()

Re Mitch 19/1/2016

Looking forward to that partition. Will be very successful. My name will be first on list please.
Hellyn

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Katherine left an annotation ()

Petition up for signing, 127000 so far..

https://www.change.org/p/house-of-repres...

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Jade left an annotation ()

I did some research last year and found that the CSS has annual reports, with a bit of scrutiny you can find some figures in these. The one I looked at showed that 3.5 billion is paid per annum to 110 thousand members, these pensions are also for other government departments but i couldn't find a median representaion of the payments to decide how many of these people are politicians.
It also states the retirement age is 55, however it is accessible once they leave their position. They are also able to salary sacrifice nearly half of their wage, meaning their own tax obligations are drastically reduced.
It is bloody unfair.

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Incoming left an annotation ()

What an excellent and thought provoking post. I came to it after I received a chain email purporting to be from Dr. Dale Kerwin of Griffith University. He is from the Uni, but he did not pen the email, though it is mostly accurate.

One thing not in this discussion about costs (since this is about retirement pension and benefits) is the ongoing expenses of these politicians. In addition they all have staff while in office that we end up paying for.

If you add these to the annual cost of 'having an elected member' it is going to be even more horrifying that $42mn p.a.

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Citizen cane left an annotation ()

Don't know if anyone saw the story on politicians being able to own a property in Canberra and claim 100% as a tax deduction, then on top of of that they receive a a benefit for accomodation while in Canberra for parliament sittings. Another rort these politicians thought of to bleed the country dry. Elections coming up and it sickens me that I have to vote for another leech to bleed this country dry.

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Lori left an annotation ()

I have just read through everyone's comments, signed and donated to the petition. I have been horrified by what I can only imagine will be an astronomical amount of money which is received by our out of office politicians. I honestly think, with the upcoming election, that this topic would be a game changer if Turnbull or Shorten were to announce an end to the benefits for out of office politicians. I tried to book a meeting with my local member about this topic but no one returned my call. I will be making a concerted effort to help bring this to the forefront as we count down to the election. Sign the petition and change our current situation.

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Zidaz IZAZ left an annotation ()

I stumbled across this website and discussion about the amount paid to ex politicians in terms of a superannuation payment...and of course all the other perks including payments to widows of x politicians. I hear peoples pain and like me you are all wondering just how much is this costing us when the politicians say we are in a deficit? Why are we paying whatever the figure is to people who are no longer serving the people? This is just so wrong. Businesses cannot afford it. No one in the real world gets it. But of course politicians think they are better than everyone else so they quietly give it to themselves and then laugh behind our backs. I have been wondering what to do about this all and I think we need to start a political party that will expose all the costs we want to know. Make it public information by having Treasury report on it. We could fight to have the necessary Acts changes to stop the perks. If you serve 6 years you get six years benefits. If you serve 12 then 12. You get me. No life long perks or Gold Cards and free flights.

I say vote me in so we can vote them out is our slogan. We want transparency when it comes to payments - all payments. We want changes that are fair and reasonable, especially in this tough economic climate. Sorry Joe Hockey and your cronies your days of free money is limited. We the people are coming after your fat perks you pay yourselves.

A political campaign in four years time. The next Federal election will give us time to get together a gain momentum. Let's make it happen. Let's rock the political foundations of greed. I have had enough! People are struggling and the politicians just get richer and richer.

Does anyone know of any existing politicians who might join us and ask the question in Parliament?

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Darren left an annotation ()

This is a topic i follow with intense interest. Not having a very good scholastic background only allows me to follow this specific topic and to support others that may be able to change it. It would definitely change the course od politics when the omly people running were not doing so for personal gain. Lets support and follow more independents and try change from the inside.

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Mez left an annotation ()

Why not start a Petition on change.com.au or ask Current Affairs to question the politicians, maybe even ask Pauline Hansen or if your one of the audience on Q&A

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Ferkled left an annotation ()

Hi everyone. I just read quite a lot of this thread and I have this which might help. Unfortunately, it's now late 2017 and this is from 2015 when I wrote about their salaries, entitlements and total gross costs.

I know it doesn't answer all the questions, but every little bit helps in building the picture!

http://www.finance.gov.au/publications/p...

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Andrew left an annotation ()

Given that the most correct use of the English language is to make a point using as few words as is possible, also to use words that even the most simple minded person can understand, I think a lot of users need to think harder when composing statements. Also proof read and use spell check please people.

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Michel Pearl left an annotation ()

I have been reading some of the notes made. I would like to thank all that have done so, for it helps us all grow as a nation towards some form of equality.
If possible apart from this post, I would also like to contribute.
I have followed the American politics and contributed to a magazine C-Vine news, for what happens in America happens in Australia.
Our major problem is the apathy of the general public, they just sit back and take it. I am sorry to have to say that. Until that is change the “knowing ones” will continue to exploit that side of ours…
Mimi

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Things to do with this request

Anyone:
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